So, some food for banterous thought.
Where in the Locality of UL, Limerick might there be a suitable location for some river works to be carried out. This would be in an attempt to dig a little deeper to create a decent feature for playboating.
1) Where the Mulkear reaches the Shannon?
2) Down by Kilmurrey beach where there is a slight elevation drop near to shore. How deep would we need to dig and would the flow there even be suitable?
How majorly cool would it be to have something like this created... I'm thinking a day or two with a Himac would do it. And I'm also thinking that there is special apps funding from the SU or Irish sports council funding we could use.
Also baring in mind the fact that the very minimum of destruction/change would have to take place in order to keep the Shannon fisheries happy.
Creation of a play feature
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GavinSheehan
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Under the new motorway bridge which passes over the Mulkear, there's an ok little play hole that was probably built by accident by them. I've only paddled it when it was very low but I'd say it could be good if the level was higher and if the water was channeled down one side. Could be very sticky though because it's quite steep. We must go out there some day and investigate it.
Sheep, like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north, where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy.
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Cathal
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Parking at Height for Hire, for the motorway Bridge feature. There will be problems with mulkear works, given there's some shrimp that has problems with the works already done on the river.
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Minimum flow needed to create a good playspot; approx 6-8 cumecs. Minimum Summer flow on Castleconnel/outback; approx 8 cumecs.
Minumum change in elevation needed: approx 2-3ft.
Best design out there at the moment for a feature with an ~8 cumec flow: Millau. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekaLSPnsloE
So basically what would have to be done is rebuild the weir at Kilmurry so that at low flows all of the water gets channelled down a ~2m wide ramp creating a hole. The rest of the weir would have to be designed so that it doesn't form a hazard at any water level and allows the feature to work at most flowrates. (I'm thinking level top, approx 2.5ft above the downstream mean water level.)
Information needed; does the downstream water flowrate change due to seasonal or other factors? (extreme flooding aside, I don't think so because of the rapids at Thomond)
Does the riverbed at Kilmurry form a solid enough base for a weir?
I don't think there's enough flow on the Mulkear for most of the year, and the changable flowrates would make it difficult to design a consistant feature. Access is much more difficult than the Shannon too.
Obstacles:
Cost: I don't know what it costs to rebuild a 100m wide weir but I'm sure it's significant.
ESB: Would have to be reassured that the redesigned weir isn't going to cause flooding at times of high water flow-rates.
Fishermen: They'll complain. They always complain. They'll blame anything for them not catching fish except the fact that they've already all been fished out of there.
Locals: Usual Not In My Back Yard bullshit.
Minumum change in elevation needed: approx 2-3ft.
Best design out there at the moment for a feature with an ~8 cumec flow: Millau. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekaLSPnsloE
So basically what would have to be done is rebuild the weir at Kilmurry so that at low flows all of the water gets channelled down a ~2m wide ramp creating a hole. The rest of the weir would have to be designed so that it doesn't form a hazard at any water level and allows the feature to work at most flowrates. (I'm thinking level top, approx 2.5ft above the downstream mean water level.)
Information needed; does the downstream water flowrate change due to seasonal or other factors? (extreme flooding aside, I don't think so because of the rapids at Thomond)
Does the riverbed at Kilmurry form a solid enough base for a weir?
I don't think there's enough flow on the Mulkear for most of the year, and the changable flowrates would make it difficult to design a consistant feature. Access is much more difficult than the Shannon too.
Obstacles:
Cost: I don't know what it costs to rebuild a 100m wide weir but I'm sure it's significant.
ESB: Would have to be reassured that the redesigned weir isn't going to cause flooding at times of high water flow-rates.
Fishermen: They'll complain. They always complain. They'll blame anything for them not catching fish except the fact that they've already all been fished out of there.
Locals: Usual Not In My Back Yard bullshit.
Phone: 0876637836. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/eoin.keyes.3
Loadsa kayakin videos, mostly of ULKC people: http://www.youtube.com/user/kayakincheese
Kayaking blog: http://eoinkeyes.blogspot.ie/
Loadsa kayakin videos, mostly of ULKC people: http://www.youtube.com/user/kayakincheese
Kayaking blog: http://eoinkeyes.blogspot.ie/
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AndrewRegan
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Castleconnell has a few perfect places to build a spot to my untrained eye.
My friend Marcel from Austria is a hydraulics engineer of some sorts and a top 20 in the world hole boater.
His professional job right now is building play features for kayakers. I was talking to him at worlds and if we pay for his expenses he will come to Ireland to do an assessment of locations for a freestyle spot.
My friend Marcel from Austria is a hydraulics engineer of some sorts and a top 20 in the world hole boater.
His professional job right now is building play features for kayakers. I was talking to him at worlds and if we pay for his expenses he will come to Ireland to do an assessment of locations for a freestyle spot.
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GavinSheehan
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I don't think the ESB would even entertain the idea of us making a play spot on their beloved river. The fishermen make enough fuss as it is just by a few of us being there. I can't imagine what sort of racket they'd make if we had a play spot with people coming from all around the country to use it. Unless it makes the ESB a whole pile of money, they won't allow it.
Sheep, like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north, where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy.
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AndrewRegan
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The age old conundrum.. To ask permission... or forgiveness.....
Worst they can say is no if we make a proposal. Proactively approach the fishermen first with the exact plans, once they realise how little impact there actually is they may be reasonable. If we bypass them they'd see it as insulting, you've got to pay to these people's egos...
Worst they can say is no if we make a proposal. Proactively approach the fishermen first with the exact plans, once they realise how little impact there actually is they may be reasonable. If we bypass them they'd see it as insulting, you've got to pay to these people's egos...
I think the ESB could be ok with it. All we'd be doing is 'renovating' an old weir at the top of Kilmurry, that might silence a lot of potential objections compared to building a whole new feature.
From what I hear, the fishery isn't doing too well with fŭck all people coming to fish on the Shannon. If we could promise them the best, most consistant playspot in Ireland which would consistantly attract paddlers here from all over the country, and wouldn't damage the fishery any further, I don't think the ESB would complain about it. I think they would be more worried about potential flooding.
If we were proposing something like that I think UL would stand behind it, and the county council should be in favour since it would attract people to Limerick.
Andrew I think if funding could be found, and approval from the relevant authorities acquired, then the actual design of the feature would be the easy bit. If Millau was followed pretty closely, with a short ramp into a deep pool, then I think it should end up pretty good. All of Marcel's projects seem to involve moving rocks around. Since we'd be working with a pretty low flow rate, the construction of it would have to be pretty precise. I think cast concrete, or some sort of adjustable system on a concrete base would be the best way to make it.
I don't think asking forgiveness is an option. Since the river is so wide there it would take a lot of work to make the water go where we need it to, and the tolerance on the heigth of the top of the dam would only be a few inches meaning that building it would probably be quite a bit beyond a few paddlers armed with a JCB.
I think there is a qenuine possibility of making this happen but I don't know where to start. Anyone got any ideas? I guess chatting to the UL sports department might give us a bit more information on the official side of things?
From what I hear, the fishery isn't doing too well with fŭck all people coming to fish on the Shannon. If we could promise them the best, most consistant playspot in Ireland which would consistantly attract paddlers here from all over the country, and wouldn't damage the fishery any further, I don't think the ESB would complain about it. I think they would be more worried about potential flooding.
If we were proposing something like that I think UL would stand behind it, and the county council should be in favour since it would attract people to Limerick.
Andrew I think if funding could be found, and approval from the relevant authorities acquired, then the actual design of the feature would be the easy bit. If Millau was followed pretty closely, with a short ramp into a deep pool, then I think it should end up pretty good. All of Marcel's projects seem to involve moving rocks around. Since we'd be working with a pretty low flow rate, the construction of it would have to be pretty precise. I think cast concrete, or some sort of adjustable system on a concrete base would be the best way to make it.
I don't think asking forgiveness is an option. Since the river is so wide there it would take a lot of work to make the water go where we need it to, and the tolerance on the heigth of the top of the dam would only be a few inches meaning that building it would probably be quite a bit beyond a few paddlers armed with a JCB.
I think there is a qenuine possibility of making this happen but I don't know where to start. Anyone got any ideas? I guess chatting to the UL sports department might give us a bit more information on the official side of things?
Phone: 0876637836. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/eoin.keyes.3
Loadsa kayakin videos, mostly of ULKC people: http://www.youtube.com/user/kayakincheese
Kayaking blog: http://eoinkeyes.blogspot.ie/
Loadsa kayakin videos, mostly of ULKC people: http://www.youtube.com/user/kayakincheese
Kayaking blog: http://eoinkeyes.blogspot.ie/
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GavinSheehan
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Yep Neasa and Dave Maheedy would be your best bet. They'll probably ask for a proposal and such though with costs,benefits, expected usage etc etc.
Sheep, like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north, where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy.
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AndrewRegan
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I wish you were right!EoinK wrote: then the actual design of the feature would be the easy bit. If Millau was followed pretty closely, with a short ramp into a deep pool, then I think it should end up pretty good
As somebody who has tried to build good freestyle features quite a few times and talked to plenty others who have tried, there is a lot more too it then it seems. Flow rate (often nneds to be accelerated or decelerated) needs to be perfectly aligned with gradient drop and downstream eddys often need to be remade. If we are going along formal lines of inquiry lets use somebody who knows exactly what they are at and will get it right.
Marcel has build all types of features from moving rocks to using adjustable planks of wood and a few other techniques in between. At the very least can we take a bunch of photos and videos of the spot so I can show him.